18:09 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
I will not be on the Wednesday chaingang for a while since I had a bad crash on be reverse loop yesterday. I am in hospital so can someone else post the rides going forward.
18:09 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Hope it's not too serious, anyone else involved?
Get well soon!
18:26 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Sorry to hear that Mark - best wishes for a speedy recovery.
18:39 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
What happened Mark? Hope it’s not too serious and you’re feeling better soon.
19:58 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Unfortunately Mark has punctured his lung, has some broken ribs, damaged shoulder and has a messed up face. He is currently in Derby General Hospital. Mark - I hope you make a speedy recovery.
20:59 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Really sorry to hear that Mark, get well soon.
21:18 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Not good to hear, hope you have a speedy recovery.
21:30 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
I wasn’t there but I’ve had a conversation with Jayne (Mark’s wife) and she has asked me to post her comments as follows:
“He’s been on his own twice (after crashes). If he’d forgotten his phone or the bloke didn’t come out the house... When he goes on these rides I track him electronically if he’s not back on time, I don’t think that’s a good enough safety net. The rides need a buddy ‘safe home’ system, or a ‘take turns to be a teller’ system or ?. Mark won’t make the fuss I’m making, but I do think it’s unacceptable and I know one friend of his who refuses to do these rides out of safety concerns. The buzz should come from the ride, not the jeopardy of lying on the ground, or waiting in -4 degree temperatures for a relative to pick you up. Sermon over.”
In my opinion, a ride leader would be a good start for all rides. A max group size would also help. The nature of the reverse is that it’s a balls out race to the line but I do think everyone should wait at the end until everyone has regrouped and be prepared to go back if necessary. I’m sure some of our committtee will have views.
21:56 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Sorry to read this about you Mark (it's horrid when bad things happen to good people), I wish you a speedy recovery.
But to Jim's Point:
I cannot help think that enforcing a ride leader would not help the situation or is the answer (unless the ride is attended regularly by juniors, which is a whole different matter). I for one wouldn't want to be the one held responsible (as the leader of a ride) if someone was to get hurt or god forbid worse. I think the problem is people treating it as a race (post the developmental nature of the CG), which often in the dark and on often slippery roads is downright dangerous as it will encourage people to push beyond what the conditions and their ability allow (if you want to race get a license and pin a number on).
When I first joined the club the reverse lap of the chaingang was always a hard but safe effort, but on the understanding that everyone is a grown up and able to look after themselves and aware of the risks. If you were dropped you made your own way and came back next week and tried harder, people often waited in the layby at the end just past Eaton Farm, but didn't linger as after such an effort you get cold quickly with dropped riders swinging off or being quite far being is sometimes wasn't practical to wait.
I think answer lies in a change of mindset of the group that partake in the reverse lap that it is a training effort, not a race and safety and contingency in the event of a problem or accident is the responsibility of the individual and not of one person or the Club.
23:02 Thu, 2 Nov 2017
Very sorry that you have suffered such a bad crash Mark. Fliss and I are both willing your full recovery.
12:12 Sat, 4 Nov 2017
It is very sad that Mark has been badly injured on chaingang. He has always been a stalwart of this group and has taken time to post this ride every week.
I have never done the reverse loop so cannot comment about it.
However, the Development chaingang has been very popular. Mark has always been supportive of new riders and can often be heard calling the pace back when gaps occur.
Over the past couple of years numbers have risen as more riders have enjoyed what we do. Almost a victim of its own success we have had over 20 riders quite often this year. This does annoy motorists when we have such a long trains.
Perhaps we should have a number when we agree to split to 2 groups (same pace but 2-3 minutes apart).
12:31 Sat, 4 Nov 2017
Really Sorry to hear the news Mark hoping you make a full recovery.
I will share this discussion with the exec.
The thread is highlighting some good points and the main body of members that ride this regularly are probably the best to shape the mindset of the ride and decide what aims, rules and protocols that they feel are appropriate.
On the rare occasions that I joined the CG I did get dropped and made my own way home. Like Andy I never did the final reverse loop.
7:53 Sun, 5 Nov 2017
Mark - sorry to hear of your crash. I wish you a full and speedy recovery. If you need anything let me know and I'll try and help.
I have attended the chaingang on numerous occasions and in the main the two recognised laps have been good with an orderly through and off. The reverse lap is a different animal but generally apart from the increased pace, has been fine and all riders accept that they could be dropped.
The problem as I see it is that riders who chose to do the reverse loop do not all set off together and as such is very difficult for any rider to know all or how many riders are involved. Whilst it is common to wait at the layby at the island we assume that after a few minutes everyone has arrived.
I'm not sure whether this reverse loop is deemed to be part of the "club chaingang" but whether it is or isn't, a structure needs to be adopted. I'm sure we all agree that none of us would welcome being in the position in which Mark has found himself. As a quick fix it might be advisable that everyone sets off together and at least everyone will know who is there before re-grouping at the layby?
I would welcome comments.
15:04 Mon, 6 Nov 2017
@RichO, basically, how it used to be/should be? I agree, I think setting off together and then waiting at the layby (like how it has been for 90%) of the time I have done this would be sensible. In recent times it has been setting off in dribs and drabs for no real reason.
17:32 Mon, 6 Nov 2017
Hope you are better soon, Mark.
I'll post the ride for this evening; lets discuss how/if to do a reverse lap.
9:08 Wed, 8 Nov 2017
This is really sad news, that’s a horrible accident and it is sad that you were alone when it happened. Totally understand why your wife feels so frustrated, my wife would feel the same. Hope you’re making a speedy recovery.
There’s no easy answer, but maybe a simple change could be that before the group sets off someone volunteers to be a sweeper (sweeper could sit on the back and stay with anyone who gets dropped) - it’d add a little bit of a safety net, and the group could wait in the lay-by until the sweeper arrives. Anybody who wants to set off and ride alone of course still can, but they’ll know they’re riding solo and nobody’s waiting.
Not sure what they do on the tues/thurs winter chaingang, but since ours is a ‘development chaingang’, and we often have younger riders in the group, it probably means we should take more care to not leave people on their own.
9:20 Thu, 9 Nov 2017
Ideally no one get dropped on the two laps as the point is to work as a gang not to go flat out. The reverse is optional and is a chance to push on and burn off some energy, people make their own way home from there otherwise so it's really the end of the organised ride. It's still a chaingang though so at the front people adjust their pace to stick together but it's still all about going fast. It means if people choose to hang on they might get dropped but that's understood and it'll often split into two groups instead. Being a bit more organised before setting off would help though so it's clear who's coming along.
I'd suggest regrouping at the left turn onto Draycott Road, people should have figured out if the pace is too high for them by then and can group as appropriate, then being aware of who to expect at the bus stop after the Eaton Farm roundabout would be one last check everyone is ok.
11:16 Fri, 10 Nov 2017
Admittedly I don't do this very often, but I think Will's suggestion is the best approach. The reverse loop is, and should continue to be, an optional extra. It is fast and some folks will get dropped. I don't think anyone believes otherwise do they? Best though if it were a fast chaingang rather than an attempt to drop everyone.
Trying to manage who got dropped and who made their way back by a different route or not might be impractical. I would have thought that as long as you've got lights on then it's not too difficult to make your own way back home from Borrowash.
I also think it's a good idea to split the ride into sensibly sized groups of say between 8 and 12 riders per group with the fastest group going off first. The groups can adjust their speeds accordingly but if someone is out of their depth they can simply drop back to the next group, with the last group on the road being careful not to drop anyone.
19:02 Fri, 10 Nov 2017
Dreadful news Mark. Best wishes in your recovery.
I like sweeper.idea. Reverse group sets off together. Same "balls out - you might get dropped ride" but everyone knows who is on reverse and everyone agrees to ride to layby. Wait in layby until sweeper arrives.
Part of me doesn't like the organised approach of this solution but this is a BCC group ride - we need to look after each other and it's a simple idea.
I'm planning on returning to this ride either this Weds or next and am happy to sweep... Erm.... Be first to be dropped.
7:45 Mon, 20 Nov 2017
Erm... Might have to withdraw that offer of sweeping on reverse lap... Until I can survive on first too laps without being dropped.
21:02 Wed, 22 Nov 2017